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Episode 25 — Matt Bunczk on Paralegal Certificates

Andie Ho: This is Andie Ho, host of the Continuing Education Series, a podcast produced for the members of the French Language Division of the American Translators Association, offering educational content about the craft of French-to-English and English-to-French translation and the Division. Matt Bunczk is an FLD member and translator who is ATA-certified in both German- and French-to-English. He specializes in business, legal and financial translations. He’s based near Philadelphia, where he obtained a BA in French from Ursinus College and a certificate of proficiency in paralegal studies from Delaware County Community College. His undergraduate studies have taken him to places including Strasbourg and Senegal. He’s been translating full time since 2015. Welcome, Matt Bunczk.

MB: Thank you, Andie. It’s great to be here.

AH: Now, I’ve already spilled the beans on why I asked Matt to speak with us today. And it’s because of that certificate of proficiency in paralegal studies from Delaware County Community College that I wanted to talk to him about it. One of our colleagues put me on to the fact that you earned this paralegal certificate, and my interest was immediately piqued because I had never heard of such a thing and didn’t know such a thing existed. So I want to hear all about it today. Why, when, where, how,, everything. And maybe our colleagues will be inspired to get one as well. So first things first. How did you learn about this paralegal certificate? Since I’ve never heard of it.

MB: I was, well, when I started freelancing back in 2015, there were just a lot of different projects coming at me, and there were some that I was that I was able to do just with my business background and as a project coordinator and an executive assistant. And then there were others that were kind of out of reach for me. But I would have liked to be able to translate them and understand the documents and everything. And so I really got into the paralegal program because I wanted to explore those documents that I was interested in translating.

AH: Did you want to specialize in legal right off the bat? Is that what made you get it or was it just because you were receiving legal and wanted to understand more about it?

MB: I think it was because I was receiving the legal documents and I wanted to understand more about them. And I think I also had the impetus from setting out on my own as a freelancer and no longer being an employee of a company and just understanding how the law affected me as an independent contractor. And in that process, I also learned a lot just about my rights and my obligations as a person. So there’s been a lot of enlightening moments along the way.

AH: So you got it from a Delaware County Community College. You got your certificate from there. Is that near you?

MB: Yes. It’s about a half an hour away from me. And Delaware County is not the county that I live in. I actually live in Montgomery County, but at Montgomery County Community College, they don’t have a paralegal certificate program. But in neighboring Delaware County, even though I would have to pay more to attend that community college, I found it very affordable still, and I was able to drive there and attend the classes.

AH: Okay. So it was in-person?

MB: Yes. And they also had a hybrid model where they wanted you to show up in person, but if you couldn’t show up in person, they streamed the class online.

AH: And this was in in what year? I mean pre-COVID?

MB: Yes, this was. I started the program in 2019 and then I completed it in 2021.

AH: So they were a little bit just ahead of the curve, huh?

MB: Yeah, absolutely.

AH: Do you know, do they happen to be full online at this point?

MB: I’m not sure about that. I would venture to say that they went back to in-person classes, but I’m not sure about that.

AH: So you said 2019 to 2021. Was it a two-year program or one-and-a-half or, I mean, how did they count it?

MB: Yeah. So technically, there are two tracks to this program. If you don’t have an associate’s degree or a bachelor’s degree, you could obtain your associate’s degree in paralegal studies. If you have an associate’s degree or a bachelor’s degree, you could take their certificate of proficiency program, which is just the classes focused on the paralegal studies. And so since I had a bachelor’s degree already, I was able to do the professional certificate program. And that was a little shorter than two years. That was about a year and a half.

AH: Taking how many classes at a time?

MB: I just took one or two classes at a time. And I was able to fit that comfortably into my schedule and still have a social life.

AH: That was going to be my next question is, how did you balance working full time, running your own business and then being in school at the same time?

MB: Basically, I took a class or two in the evenings and over the summer, and like I said, it was just one or two at a time. And it was just for each class. It was about three hours of class time each week. And then probably the same, if not a little more, more hours for homework. But it was definitely doable working full-time.

AH: And all the classes were in the evening?

MB: Yeah. Yep. There was no problem there.

AH: Okay, so that sounds like it lends itself to working professionals, people who are already working a full-time job.

MB: Exactly, yeah.

AH: Okay, so what was the curriculum like? What kinds of classes do you take to get a paralegal certificate?

MB: So they start out their program with an introduction to paralegal studies, and that gave an overview of our legal system in the United States. And then after that, I took two classes in legal research and writing, and that was followed by contract law and then another class called Technology in the Law, which made sure that we were able to draft documents in Microsoft Word and create PowerPoint presentations and work with software that you would find in law firms. And then after that, I took a real estate law class. I took an accounting class because they want their paralegal students to have some general idea of how accounting works. I took civil litigation and tort principles, civil litigation and toward applications, criminal law. And then at the end of it all, I had — it was almost like an internship, but it was geared toward working professionals so you didn’t have to show up at an internship every day. But in the evenings we would go to our professor’s law firm. She had a private practice and she would give us real live cases to work on.

AH: Oh, wow. That’s really neat.

MB: Yeah, it was really neat and really eye-opening and really humbling.

AH: Wow. So how many of those classes did you choose, and how many of them were mandatory for everyone in the program?

MB: So most of those classes were mandatory. There was one elective that we had to take, but we had a choice of which elective we took. And the choices were family law, there was one called elder law, there was bankruptcy law, there was business organizations, administrative law. And the one that I took, I actually took it at Montgomery County Community College, and I had the credit transferred in, and that was a business law class.

AH: All right. Okay. So I don’t know if you have a full answer for this, but how does a paralegal certificate differ from full-blown law school? Is it…I mean, did you… Do people in law school take the classes that you took and then continue on? Or was it like a pretty separate program?

MB: Right. What I heard from the chairperson of the paralegal studies department when I was first being received into the paralegal studies program was that this program was almost like the equivalent of the first year of law school, and it touches on most areas of the law. I would say it doesn’t go as in-depth as a law school curriculum would go, but it still gave you still went pretty deep with everything.

AH: You mentioned tuition being relatively affordable. I mean, we don’t have to go into specifics, but you found it was affordable for your case?

MB: Yeah, absolutely.

MB: I don’t mind sharing how much it cost for me as an out-of-county student. I paid about $1,000 a class, not including the books. So with 11 or 12 classes, that was around $12,000. And I wasn’t paying that all at once. I was just paying as I went.

AH: Okay. And then you mentioned that you could go into the certificate program even if you don’t already have an associate’s or a bachelor’s. So what are the qualifications to get in?

MB: You would basically have to apply to the program, like, just apply to the college and declare your major as a paralegal studies major.

AH: Okay. So you could just be straight out of high school, for instance?

MB: Absolutely, yep.

AH: Okay. Well, how many of your fellow students were straight out of high school or traditional college age? And how many of them were older or non-traditional?

MB: I would say it was split half and half. So half the students were straight out of high school and then the other half were working professionals.

AH: And how big were the classes?

MB: They were, I would say, they kind of ranged between probably between eight and 15 people in a class, I’d say.

AH: Oh, that’s a nice little size.

MB: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had great discussions that way.

AH: Oh, good. So did you feel like you got some good personal attention from your professors?

MB: Oh, yeah. Lots of personal attention. Yeah.

AH: You mentioned going to your professor’s actual law firm. That’s pretty cool.

MB: Oh, yeah, Yeah, that was. And, yeah, she trusted us with her cases, and she was okay with asking her clients if it was okay if we sat in on the discussions and helped with the cases and everything and yeah, it was really a wonderful opportunity.

AH: So what kinds of backgrounds did your fellow students come from? I mean, were there lots of other translators like you or people who actually, you know, wanted to work as a paralegal afterwards? Where did they come from?

MB: Most of them, they were seeking employment as a paralegal. For me, I was kind of the oddball. I mean, they were very interested in my translation work and everything. I definitely felt out of place because, you know, I kind of didn’t have it in my mind that I would be working as a paralegal after this. And I still don’t because there’s a level of stress in the work that I’m personally like, I don’t feel like I’m up to it. But yeah, most people in the program were working toward working as a paralegal.

AH: I can definitely relate to being in a room and being the oddball translator there.

MB: Exactly.

AH: So the big questions. How has this helped you in your translation work, if at all? Like, how have you been able to use this in your translation career?

MB: I would say the most important thing that it’s given me is it’s enabled me to translate the documents that I’ve wanted to work with, and then some. There are lots of moments where I’m saying to myself, oh my God, I’m so glad I took these classes. And I don’t feel so lost when I’m facing certain documents or certain situations.

AH: Have you been able to actively use your certificate as a selling point to potential clients?

MB: Oh yeah.

AH: Or is it more of a personal…

MB: I do put myself out there as someone who specializes in legal translations. I’m not necessarily actively seeking out legal translation, but it is something that interests me very much. It’s something that I think I’m pretty good at. Those are my feelings about that. Does that answer the question?

AH: I think so, yeah. And yeah, it makes sense. If you also specialize in business and financial, you’re probably going to see a fair amount of legal coming at you as well.

MB: Absolutely. Yeah.

AH: Okay, Well, this has been very interesting. Um, last question that I always ask all of my interviewees. Is there anything else you want listeners to know about life, the universe and everything?

MB: [laughs] Well, I guess in terms of the paralegal program and paralegal studies, I guess I will end by saying that I know it’s not for everyone. I know there’s one listener in particular who won’t touch legal translations with a 10-foot pole. But if you are interested in legal things, if you would like to learn more about our legal system in the United States, it’s definitely an interesting program. Linguistically, you do so much mental gymnastics, working with words and dealing with terminology and statutes and court cases. So it’s definitely an exercise in working with your words, and I think it would definitely improve your skills as a translator even if you don’t go into legal translation. Um. And, I think that’s it.

AH: All right. Words of wisdom from Matt Bunczk. Thank you so much, Matt, for this perspective. Very interesting. I may be googling paralegal certificates near me soon. We’ll see. But thank you for your time today. We appreciate it.

MB: Great, thanks a lot for the opportunity, Andie.

MB: Appreciate it.

AH: This concludes our episode for today. You can subscribe to the Continuing Education Series podcast on SoundCloud or iTunes by searching for “Continuing Education series.” You can contact the FLD at division [at] atanet.org, visit our website at www.ata-divisions.org/fld, or get in touch with us on social media. This is Andie Ho signing off. Thanks for listening and à bientôt!

Matthew Bunczk is an ATA-certified German-to-English and ATA-certified French-to-English translator specializing in business and legal texts.

ATA Podcast host Andie Ho is a certified French to English translator specializing in the food industry. She earned her M.A. in translation from Kent State University and is now based in the Houston area. She currently serves as the ATA’s French Language Division administrator. You can follow her on Twitter at @JHawkTranslator or email her at andie [at] andiehotranslations [dot] com.